tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7053741479562244715.post7234878967941928846..comments2023-09-12T08:51:02.365-07:00Comments on Theological Reflections: TithingJ. Randall Easterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01481322437499188422noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7053741479562244715.post-50212422188382732982014-02-27T16:33:29.140-08:002014-02-27T16:33:29.140-08:00Kelly: For your information Matthew 23:23 and Luke...Kelly: For your information Matthew 23:23 and Luke 18:41 are pre-Calvary when Jesus taught the whole law to fellow Hebrews. And Hebrews 7 does not command the church to tithe to gospel workers. When comparing Hebrews 7:5, 12, 18 it is clear that the law-commandment to take tithes (v5) was changed (v12) to be annulled (v18).<br /><br />Concerning the Sabbatdh. I was an SDA-educated and ordained pastor. The Sabbath of the Law and as used by Jesus was the sign and seal of the Old Covenant with Israel (Ex 31:13-17). To worship on the 7th day is not in the heart and is not tautht by nature and conscience (Rom 2:14-16).<br /><br />You are hypocritical. If you drive on the Sabbath, use electricity, heating gas, water, etc –YOU are causing others to work on the Sabbath and are a Sabbath-breaker yourself. <br /> <br />Easter: In many ways the teaching of the NT should compel one to give far and above the 10 percent mark. <br /><br />Kelly: While that is true, it is still not biblical justification to teach that everybody must begin their level of giving at 10%. In OT Law only Hebrews who produced food from inside Israel qualified as tithe-payers. Their tithes went first to the Levites and not the priests. Do you follow that rule? Today all believers are priests.<br /><br />Easter: According to the NT it would be good to sell all one has and give it to the poor. <br /><br />Kelly: Again, this teaches freewill sacrdificial giving -- not tithing.<br /><br />Easter: … the things that could be done for missions would greatly increase overnight. <br /><br />Kelly: Again, true, but not biblical. OT tithes were never used for missions to convert Gentiles.<br /><br />Easter: However, does the truth of a cheerful heart negate the reality that the saints ought to tithe 10 percent? <br /><br />Kelly: Where are post-Calvary saints commanded to tithe? <br /><br />Easter: Matthew 23:23 <br /><br />Kelly: You manipulate God’s word and make it say only that which you want to say:<br />(1) CONTEXT: “MATTERS OF THE LAW” – WHY DID YOU OMIT THIS PHRASE? Twisting God’s Word!!!<br />(2) CONTEXT: Before Calvary. Of course Jesus taught tithing – He lived and died while the Law was still in full effect –the whole law. If Jesus had not taught tithing He would have been sinning!! Jesus also commanded those whom he healed to show themselves to the priest. Do you teach that? Jesus obeyed the Law and went to Jerusalem at Passover. Do you teach that? He taught the whole law.<br /><br />Easter: He simply says that Christians must practice justice, mercy, and faithfulness without neglecting tithing. <br /><br />Kelly: My Bible says He was addressing “scribes, Pharisees, teches of the Law” – not Christians. He commanded His disciples to obey the interpretation of the law given to them by the “scribes, Pharisees, techers of the law.” Do you?<br />Russell Earl Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08503861082402192378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7053741479562244715.post-13549679839743619362014-02-27T10:17:23.539-08:002014-02-27T10:17:23.539-08:00Sorry just realized the 4th commandment is the Sab...Sorry just realized the 4th commandment is the Sabbath. I am sure many of the non-tithers don't believe in honoring the Sabbath. I know some who do though.jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06488754700362148332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7053741479562244715.post-22921825493863763612014-02-27T10:11:38.090-08:002014-02-27T10:11:38.090-08:00Brother Easter
I am one of those who do not believ...Brother Easter<br />I am one of those who do not believe tithing is required. I believe that our giving should be sacrificial, liberal, cheerful, free, and led by the Holy Spirit. I can thoroughly address all of your points above with plenty of scripture and reasoning. it would take much more time than i have to do so. I will try to be succinct. <br /><br />YOU: "They claim that tithing is not mentioned in the New Testament"<br />ME: Of course it is mentioned in the New Testament - Matt 23 & Heb 7, Luke 11. Maybe you misunderstood them. They meant that tithing wasn't commanded after the cross.<br /><br />YOU: "The people who claim tithing to be a form of legalism are usually the same people who do not think that the 4th commandment is still valid"<br />ME: That's a broad accusation. i'm not sure where you get your proof from but I personally know many people who do not believe in tithing, and i can be certain none of them believe that we shouldn't honor our father or mother.<br /><br />YOU: "God gave us such a discipline to guard our hearts against materialism, selfishness, and forgetfulness"<br />ME: God didn't create laws just because it's a good discipline. He had principles to follow. If discipline was a goal of his, He would have commanded us to make our beds every morning, pick up our toys, and take a shower every day. Just because tithing makes sense and is a good idea and great discipline does not validate it any more than finding wisdom in circumcision and requiring that as well. I'm not against standards. I think they are great. I have some giving standards of my own.<br /><br />YOU: "When people do not tithe they forget to trust God and be dependent upon Him for all things."<br />ME: I disagree. You have it backwards. When people forget to trust God, they do not give. Some can still give without trusting God, but you cannot trust God without giving.<br /><br />YOU: "When Jesus is pronouncing judgment upon the Pharisees we find that He acknowledges the necessity ἀποδεκατόω (to tithe, collect a tithe)"<br />ME: If you read the beginning of that whole passage when Jesus First speaks you will get some context. Jesus states in v2, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you". There are two obvious points here. First is, Jesus words in Matt 23 is not for the Church to obey the Pharisees. Second is, that Jesus confirmed the Mosaic laws authority, and asks the listeners to continue obeying.<br /><br />There's more i could really point out but it would be too many words and too much time. I'm not trying to destroy giving. i'm trying to encourage the type of giving that most tithers do any way above the tithe. I didn't always believe what i do now. I tithed since my first paycheck at age 15 until many years later someone confronted me about the validity of tithing. I went on a mission to defend tithing but came out the other end of the debate.jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06488754700362148332noreply@blogger.com